Interview with Andrew Clennell, Sunday Agenda, Sky News - Sunday 15 December 2024
Topics: Passing of Kevin Andrews; Labor’s sacking and stacking of the Reserve Bank board; nuclear costings; MYEFO
E&OE
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Well, joining me live from Goulburn now is the Shadow Treasurer, Angus Taylor. Angus Taylor, thanks for your time. Bit of news there in that Jim Chalmers interview. We spoke about his changes to the RBA board. He's creating these two boards. He's indicating an announcement in the next couple of days. He said he spoke to you Friday. Are you happy he will make non-political appointments? Has he taken up any of your suggestions on appointments?
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well, Andrew, just before I get into this, I want to pay tribute to Kevin Andrews as you know, passed away in the last day or so. He was a great colleague and a great friend …
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Angus Taylor. Angus Taylor, I should point out, sorry, I'll let you keep going but I just wanted to point out I hadn't forgotten about Kevin Andrews, and I was going to ask you about him, but go for it now, please.
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well, I thought I'd just say this up front. He was a wonderful, calm, wise colleague who I came to respect over time enormously. He was also a great friend. I spent thousands of kilometres of roads on a bike with him in Pollie Pedal. He was a very keen cyclist, indeed wrote a book on the history of Italian cycling, and I got to know him then as a great friend, a wise head and I also got to know his wonderful wife, Margie, through Pollie Pedal who is just an outstanding human being and my best wishes go to Margie and the family. To your question,
Andrew, look, it's disappointing that every time I have a conversation with the Treasurer, he telegraphs it, but our position on the Reserve Bank Board has been clear all along. We want to see the existing board transition to the new board. It's simple. We need stability right now in our Reserve Bank Board. We need a government that does what's necessary to get interest rates down. They're coming down in countries all over the world, not in Australia. We need a government focused on getting inflation down to make the Reserve Bank's job easier, and we need stability in the Reserve Bank board, so there's no secret on our position on that. It’s been a consistent position all the way along. I've conveyed that publicly. I've conveyed that to the Treasurer, and I will continue to. That is our position, and it's disappointing. We saw the first … the early board appointments, indeed, immediately after the review was released where there was no consultation. The government just went and did it. They didn't follow the process. They didn't follow what was recommended in the review and we've made a very clear suggestion about what should be happening here, and the government is clearly rejecting that.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Right. So have you suggested names they've rejected? Is he not going to do what you're saying, which I understand … the existing board is the governance board.
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Yes. We have.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
He’s not putting those people on the rate-setting board. Right? Is that what you're saying?
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well, look what I'm saying is we have suggested names. The existing board. That's who should go on the new board.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
And he said that's not happening? And he said that's not happening.
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well, it appears so. It's very clear. He’s said that on multiple occasions.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Is there anyone that you believe could be classed as a so-called political appointment that he's talking about? Someone with some sort of Labor Party connection?
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well, I think anything other than taking the existing board and transitioning it to the new board is, I would say, political. It's a sack and stack strategy, as I've said all the way along. That's been the politics of this issue all the way along. We've said we'd work with the Labor Party, but we don't support sack and stack. They decided they wanted to stand at a drafting gate and decide who went to which board. We don't agree with that. We've been clear about that all along. Our position won't change, Andrew.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
What do you think is motivating this? Do you believe that if Jim Chalmers puts different people on this so-called rate setting board, that the government is more likely to get a rate cut early next year from the RBA? When do the appointments begin, for example?
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well, what you're suggesting is that the Treasurer might be attempting to politicise the Reserve Bank Board and to throw away the independence that's been in place, strongly in place since Peter Costello in the 1990s. That's a question you should ask of the Treasurer. Our fear has been all along that that's where this might end up but they’re questions for the Treasurer, I should say. What we need right now, though, most of all is a government that is making it easier for the Reserve Bank to get interest rates down, to get inflation down. We haven't seen that. I mean, with MYEFO coming up, Chris Richardson and other independent economists have told us we're going to see the budget falling off a cliff, just as we've seen the economy falling off a cliff. Seven consecutive quarters of household recession. Unprecedented in this country. We're seeing spending growing fast at a rapid, rapid rate, and Chris Richardson tells us that we're going to have $220 billion of headline deficits over the next four years. This is a disastrous budget situation, which reflects the government taking us on a pathway to economic ruin.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
And it may not be a great budget situation, but you've finally released your nuclear policy costings and seen them heavily contested, and they involve, as the Treasurer just said, off budget spending. They'll involve borrowing or cutting probably borrowing. Is this the best way forward to Australia? And why wasn't there anything in there on cutting Australians’ power bills?
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well, a 44% reduction in electricity costs is the pathway to a stronger economy, lower electricity bills and a better outcome for Australians. I think that's pretty clear. 44% is a big number, Andrew, and that's why we're doing this. Including a portion of clean baseload nuclear power in the system brings down the overall costs of the system, which puts you in a position where our manufacturers, data centres, Australian households, small businesses, can pay less for electricity over the many decades to come. I mean at the same time …
ANDREW CLENNELL:
… Angus Taylor they’re saying that your estimates, which create that 44% involves a massive shrinking of what the economy is going to be. What do you say to that?
ANGUS TAYLOR:
This is, you know, the only people who know how to shrink this economy is the Labor Party, and they're doing an extremely good job of it right now. Seven consecutive quarters of GDP per capita going backwards. It's completely unprecedented, Andrew. Household budgets are in disarray. They're in ruin. We've never seen the hit to household disposable incomes, the standard of living of Australian households like we've seen since Labor came to power. Not at any time in the past, not the recession we had to have under Paul Keating, not the Gough Whitlam economic disaster. This is worse than all of those situations and so I won't take lectures on the economy from the Labor Party, but I tell you what, one of the ways we know you strengthen the economy is to ensure that the electricity costs in the economy are lower than they otherwise would have been and that's what this plan does. It's a broad range of technologies in the plan. It's a balance. You know, the one person who isn't balanced on energy is Chris Bowen and his mates. The vested interests are out there squawking away at the moment as you'd expect them to, you know, the agents of foreign investors in this industry that we see working with Chris Bowen, but he's not interested, it seems, in getting electricity bills down. We've seen that he promised a $275 reduction, Andrew, and we are nowhere near that. He's got 16 days, by the way. He's got 16 days for the deadline on that. But I think we can all be pretty confident we're not going to see that.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
But what you're talking about here, Angus Taylor, if we take the nuclear aspect out of it, is a massive Federal Government interference or involvement in the energy market. You're talking about up to 38% Federal Government-owned nuclear plants. We're talking about a capital cost of $140 billion bucks by my calculations, $120 your guys say. It'll probably be more, let's face it. I mean, you're a former Energy Minister. Doesn't this distort or stop private sector investment if you put this much Federal Government investment into an energy market?
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well, a couple of things I'd say about all of that, and they're the assertions that come from those swawking invested interests that I talked about a moment ago, Andrew. The first point I would make about this is the best way to ensure the private sector is strong in this country is to have lower costs of electricity. We're seeing manufacturing going backwards in this country. We're seeing a record rate of insolvencies in businesses across this country, and we know one important contributor to that is electricity bills. If we want to ensure we have a strong private sector, you've got to have low electricity costs. The second point I'd make is that historically, big base load generators have been driven by government investment. They've got to get a return. That is what's built into the model, and they should get a return. They must get a return, but that's the history of big base load generators, not just in Australia, but around the world. The key here is to have lower costs of electricity, and that is the goal here, 44% reduction and I tell you what … something about Labor's plan that they've never been honest about, it is being completely underwritten by government. Entirely underwritten by government. How much of that we end up paying for in the budget? There's no transparency whatsoever from Chris Bowen on this, but it is being underwritten by governments, indeed, right to the point where we're seeing the Victorian and New South Wales Government doing backroom deals with coal fired generators to keep them open because that's necessary they've discovered belatedly in order to get sensible outcomes. So, you know, this is the kind of hypocrisy we frequently see from Labor. A Labor Party that is taking us down the path of four consecutive massive deficits, you’ll see coming up as Chris Richardson tells us. $220 billion in four years in the headline cash balance in the red, Andrew. That's the issue we’ve got to deal with right now.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
The coal fired power stations staying open for longer. Briefly, who funds that? Is that the Federal Government, under you, or the state governments or how's that going to happen?
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well, that is all been costed in the costings that have been put out.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Okay, fair enough.
ANGUS TAYLOR:
It includes coal remaining open until there is appropriate replacement.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
But could it be federal funds?
ANGUS TAYLOR:
There will be a mix of technologies.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Could it be federal funds that allow … if the NSW Government are saying we’re not going to do that?
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well it’s all entirely costed. Right now the Victorian and New South Wales governments are covering that. We'll see. Labor hasn't been transparent about the pathway they're pursuing on this right now. They've put out some changes which are very vague and in principle we’ve seen in recent weeks.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
All right, Angus Taylor, I'm nearly out of time. Sorry, I’m nearly out of tie and I just want to get a couple of things in. The suggestion you could have a plan up and running by 2036. Isn't that a bit ambitious? You got to put a regulatory system in etc.
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Yeah, I know and you know it's true that under Labor, regulatory systems are sclerotic, and they stop everything from happening. Our approach to a regulatory system is to get things moving, Andrew. It's a very different approach. It's a Liberal Party approach which says don't clog up the system with more unnecessary regulation. Get your regulation right, fit for purpose and get things done quickly. I mean, we're seeing a Labor Party that regulates our resources industry out of existence. Getting an approval through in the resources sector right now is impossible. Getting approvals through for housing is proving to be impossible. There's a different approach to regulation which is fit for purpose to deliver the outcomes we need but don't clog up the private sector. Don't clog up investment. Don't clog up the investments that need to be made by governments as well. But that's exactly what's happening under the Labor Party.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
I just want to circle back on this RBA board stuff with some developing news, really, on the program this morning. Now I'm told not one person is getting sacked, so maybe they won't be on the rate setting board. But no one’s leaving the RBA and I should clarify to our viewers, it's from the 1st of March this begins. So do you accept that no one's going? Is there any particular person that's giving you a red flag?
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Clearly, Andrew, you're getting lots of texts through from the Treasurer or the Treasurer's office, as he kind of carries on as he does. Let's be clear here. We said we wanted the current board transitioned over. We wanted stability in the board. We've seen someone standing at the drafting gate deciding which current board members they want on the governance board, which current board members they want on the monetary policy setting board. We said that's unacceptable. We wanted to see the existing board carried over. We know how Labor deals with appointments. They get their own way, and they find ways of doing that, and that's clearly what they've done here and you know, I've been clear about this right from the start. There's been absolutely no ambiguity in our position. It's unfortunate that that the Treasurer likes to telegraph when he's having private conversations with me. I don't do that. He's decided to do that. But what I will say is our position is unambiguously clear on this. It has been all along, and it won't be changing.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Shadow Treasurer, Angus Taylor, thanks so much for your time.
ANGUS TAYLOR:
Good on you, Andrew. Good to be with you.
ENDS.
